Formica Counter Tops Pt 2

The continuation of an on going conversation.

The issues here are:

1. The perceived cruelty of God, as Father, toward the individual man in allowing suffering.

2. The murder of the innocents, in the plagues of Egypt.

Hope that helps...

One great paradox of parenting is that just as the joy of the child is the joy of the parent, so too it is true regarding their pain as well. In avoiding pain for our children, we also avoid pain for ourselves.

So yes, the natural tendency of a parent is toward the protection of their child, but to spare a child from every pain in life is also to rob them of every lesson that comes with it.

In short, you can only tell a child so many times that the oven is hot. They can know that you're right, or they can learn that you're right, and those that must learn by experience will do so.

I generally try to avoid the rabbit hole of OT deaths that people find objectionable, simply because of the time involved and the Pandora's box we potentially open. But here I'll take exception.

Let me start by saying that many people not following their logic to its conclusion like to say that God can do whatever he wants and so because something isn't done it is simply for lack of want on Gods end. This is untrue.(Of course this presupposes that what we see is all that there is, which we have already acknowledged to be untrue.)

I suppose in a sense God can do anything he wants, but only because what he wants does not violate his own nature and that is the thing he cannot do or he is not God at all. So God as the source of the law cannot be in violation of it, or again he is not God.

A forced love is no love at all, so we are given the choice to love God or rebel against Him, but there is no middle ground.

We are allowed reason and freewill, both serve as blessing and curse, and God sometimes spares us the folly resulting there from, but allows us to suffer the consequences resulting from them at other times.

The extra mile always becomes the expected mile I have found, so the view is more often that we are  suffering some divine punishment, more so that realizing the grace afforded us when we are spared from our own undoings.

All that said, and as previously noted, those who choose to live in rebellion against God are not innocent and as harsh as it sounds,  suffer as those who are not innocent.

Which brings us to the paradox of being a child, that they benefit and suffer for the decisions of their parents and those before them.

That is the best I can do here for now, and it's not a very good at that,  however here is a link to a pretty extensive and insightful article about this very subject: http://christianthinktank.com/killheir.html

I have a half am hour left to sleep, please stop making me think.

Formica Counter Tops Pt 1

This is one side of an on going conversation. For clarity, basically the issues at hand here are:

1. What is the nature and level of concern / involvement regarding God in the affairs of the individual?

2. What does God owe man, and what does man owe God?

Hope that helps...

Part of being created in the image of God, means that we are created with an inherent need for relationship, both with God and with each other.

The concern of God with man then is generally in regard to those things that move us toward the restoration of a once harmonious relationship.

In other words, since the relation is spiritual, the aspects of man’s life and activities that God is concerned with are those aspects that affect man’s spiritual condition, the how and the why, but not the activity itself. (I also happen to think that if more people could adopt this view our generosity in extending shame could be replaced with healing and restoration)

That said, God recognizes and shows concern for the need of man to have satisfaction and purpose by and through his activities as is evidenced in God creating the Garden of Eden and then moving man into it with the charge of tending to the garden.

On a grander scale the day-to-day activities in person's life may play some part in regard to the final outcome of overall events, but for us to understand the complexity of that would require the finite to understand the infinite, which we have acknowledged man cannot do.

It seems to me however that given a man's limited power to change much of anything and rather limited perspective regarding the larger picture about what should in fact even be changed, these things are pretty much irrelevant.

It might just be wiser to accept them and move on rather than pondering them and going no further for lack of resolution that wouldn't be found anyway.

So now, let's step back just a bit. After placing Adam in the garden, Adam's first task is to name all of the animals. At the outset this might seem cruel, that God would have each set of animals, complete with mate, parade before Adam to drive home the fact that what God had done for all of the other animals he had not done for Adam. Adam might even be fair to call it cruel?

Here I will note that the greatest lessons in life often come at the greatest price. It is the only way to understand them in the depth that would make them truly effective.

The simple provision of these things, void of the experience of discovery trends to degrade and devalue them to the recipient, and thus it's a disservice to do so.

That said then it's not at all cruel when we consider that what is happening here is what I believe happens often in our own lives though we fail to comprehend it, or simply lack the patience to. Here it's spelled out for us or we might miss it once more, God recognizes Adam's need although Adam has not recognized it himself.

Certainly God could have simply resolved it right then and there, just as we often ask him to do for us at our whim, but there is apparently a need to make man aware of what it is he needs and the depth in which he needs it.

Only after that then happens does God resolve Adam's need for relationship on that level, and so too may be true in the difficulties of our own lives.

I could elaborate much more on all of this, but for our conversation (this part of it at least) this is sufficient I believe.

As for what God might owe to man, and what man may owe to God, God has already provided, and man must choose to accept and in turn provide as well. At its root it is simply love and the desire to be in relationship each with the other.

There are some other points to be addressed, and now that this much is laid out, hopefully (for your sake) it will be shorter.

The problem is always me

The Stuff of Dreams

What follows is a dream that I had this past Friday night.
It is as detailed and as vague as I recall it.

God v Man

Any cruelties inflicted by God against man is greatly overshadowed by the cruelties inflicted by man against man.

Sometimes When You Are a Man

I am a man among women...

Endless Weekend

Some dread Monday, but the weekend never really ends...

... if you work weekends.

Trading Up

Be careful about which problems in life you wish away. Rest assured they will be replaced.

of Monsters and Men

Monsters are not born in a moment, they are created over the course of time.

Increasing the Volume: 110613

What's Dave Listening to these days?
Besides Christmas music, this:

Thermometers and Barometers

One will accept only that which they are prepared and willing to accept, so that what they take on they do so willingly.

That said the acceptance or rejection of something is only truly an indicator of ones relational position, more than any sort of indication about the thing itself.

Silencer of the Lambs

I'm always surprised at mans' capacity for inhumanity towards his fellow man...

When we think about the tragedies of life that humans have suffered, it seems the tendency is to consider those we read about in history books and headlines. It's big and dramatic and the aftermath is obvious. It's on a collective large scale.

If cruelty could be quantified however, I have to wonder if the collective less obvious cruelty inflicted between individuals in the mere course of everyday relationships would be greater if we took into consideration the subtle aftermath over time that spans across generations.

Our thoughts become our words, our words become our actions and our actions become reinforcement to our thoughts, and so it begins all over again.

It is the everyday actions of living without considering the impact of our actions and words to our own well being, and the impact on those we know that seems to desensitize us and thus prepares us to inflict evil on an even greater scale toward those we don't.

These are the sorts of small, simple actions spawned from things like not giving others the benefit of the doubt, assuming the worst possible motive foremost, responding in kind to unkindness, cruel words followed by the suggestion that we were "joking", these and many more small things that wear people down and give them cause to rise only to their lowest possible level since doing otherwise seems to reap very little reward among our peers. It perpetuates itself and it is a sad cycle that is difficult to break.

Not to suggest we might all become tyrants with the power of life and death over millions, but we do have some measure of the power in the exercise of our social, religious and political worldviews that cannot be disregarded either. If we have relationships then we have the daily choice to build others up or tear them down with our words and actions.

We live in a sensitive, volatile time and we often avoid personal conflict at all costs, but what of the cost of not speaking up against wrong doing even on such a small scale when we consider its larger impact? Perhaps only overlooking the small personal offenses that have been caused to us is a good place to start. Then maybe others will begin to overlook those offenses caused by us so we may begin to move forward.

Regardless of the commonality of our world views, our sense of right and wrong bears more in common than it does in difference. Though it may be our motivator religion does not have to be the ground on which we stand in terms of making a case for wrong doing.

It is better to pull weeds than mow over them so gentle correction at the outset is as I see it, is the best course of action in avoiding the later consequences of a generation of people who would rather have avoided offense over correcting wrong doing and so remain silent.

Thoughts?

America The Poorest Nation on the Planet

If a mighty oak grew 6 inches in a day we would hardly notice, but if our grass grew 3 inches in a week we would notice right away...